Interview with Adrianna Hopkins: Uterine Fibroids, Advocacy, and Uncovering the Missing Lessons in Sexual Education

Adrianna Hopkins is an award-winning storyteller, professor, moderator, and host. She is also committed to breaking the wall of silence about fibroids.

Fibroids are muscular growths that develop within the uterine wall. Although they are often non-cancerous, they can exist as solitary tumors or manifest in multiple masses within the uterus. These growths vary in size, ranging from as small as an apple seed to as large as a grapefruit.

Research says that 90% of Black and 70% of White women will be diagnosed with fibroids by the age of 50. However, it's important to note that not all individuals will encounter symptoms or necessitate treatment.

In this fascinating chat, Adrianna is open and honest about her experiences, and how little she knew about her own body growing up. A lack of information meant that she had no idea about what was considered a 'normal' or 'heavy' period, or the symptoms that should have made her speak to her medical team.

Adrianna also shares her thoughts on digital health solutions and talks about the work she does with The White Dress Project, a non-profit organization that supports people managing life with fibroids.

Topics include:

• Adrianna's symptoms and the lack of education about her periods
• Why your relationship with your doctor should be the same as the one you have with your hairstylist
• How Adriana only became aware of fibroids when undergoing fertility treatment
• Information about The White Dress Project and Adrianna's involvement 
• The digital health apps that Adrianna has used

Visit Adrianna Hopkins
Connect with Adriana on Instagram, Twitter, or LinkedIn
Visit The White Dress Project and connect on Instagram

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Disclaimer
The information in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified healthcare providers with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment.

The personal views expressed by guests on Women's Digital Health are their own. Their inclusion here does not constitute an endorsement from Dr. Brandi, Women's Digital Health, or associated organizations.

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Transcript

Episode 8: interview-with-adrianna-hopkins-balancing-fertility-journalism-and-advocacy.mp3

00:00 Dr. Brandi  Adriana Hopkins is a beautiful, successful Emmy award-winning journalist, a professor, and a mother of two. I gotta say, I'm so thankful to Adriana's ability to speak clearly about a topic that might make many of us feel embarrassed. As a young, bright girl, she went through the educational school system, just like all of us, that taught her the basics of sexual education. And when she got married and wanted to start a family, it became very clear that there were a few, maybe more than a few, lessons that were missing. Stories like hers, yeah, this is the reason I started Women's Digital Health. Many of us could benefit from getting a lot more information before our family planning is even on the table. The fertility journey is not just about you getting pregnant. It's about what happens before you become pregnant and your understanding of your health up until that point. It could take months, years, and several conversations with experts to build a trusted, supportive community just to get to that point. And because many of us don't get the education, we definitely don't have the courage to ask, what is happening to my body? So let Women's Digital Health do that work for you. Welcome to the Women's Digital Health podcast, a podcast dedicated to learning more about new digital technologies in women's health. We discuss convenient and accessible solutions that support women with common health conditions. Join us as we explore innovations like mobile health applications, sensors, telehealth, and artificial intelligence, plus more. Learn from a board certified anesthesiologist the best tips to filling some of your health experience gaps throughout life's journey. Let's learn from Adriana how she used her journalism skills to catch up quick and become the detective and advocate for herself and now for others. In this interview, we will explore her journey into fertility. We'll learn how a young Adriana learned about her body. We'll learn how she even uncovered her fertility challenges, which were completely unexpected. We will learn how she found help through her mother and through advocacy organizations like the White Dress Project. We'll learn how important it is to invest in women's health at a federal level through acts like the Stephanie Tubbs Jones Fibroid Research and Education Act. And we'll also learn how Adriana used digital health in her fertility journey. Fertility can affect both men and women. And for the sake of this episode, we'll be focusing on uterine fibroids, which is a benign tumor that can affect all women of all backgrounds, but disproportionately affects women of African descent. The challenge is that we have yet to really explore the reasons why. Throughout this episode, you may hear me pop in every now and then explaining terms that Adriana is using and how I, as an anesthesiologist, manage uterine fibroids in the operating room. But before we begin, we will start with some wise words from Dr. Samantha Butts. In medicine and societally, we've got to stop normalizing abnormal periods for women. Please check out episode five, an interview I did with Dr. Samantha Butts to learn more about how experts address challenges in fertility like Adriana's and so many others. And in this episode, we'll be putting Dr. Samantha Butts' expertise together with the real woman dealing with real issues and understanding more about how we can approach this fertility journey with more information and more empowerment. Enjoy this episode. Hello, Adriana. Hello. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate you coming on and just being a part of the Women's Digital Health Platform and talking to us about a really, really important topic.

04:34 Adrianna Hopkins Well, I love what you're doing. So it's an honor and pleasure to be here.
04:36 Dr. Brandi Thank you so much. You are an Emmy Award journalist. You are a mom. You are a professor. You are an advocate for women's health. I'm already kind of like, how is she doing all of these things? But I get it. You got to do what you got to do.

04:58 Adrianna Hopkins Got to do what you got to do. And honestly, I don't know how it gets done. It just gets done. I was at a panel today for the DC Mayor's Maternal and Infant Health Summit, and they asked a question about work-life balance. And I was like, yeah, I don't have any answers. I don't know. I get it. Yeah. When somebody cracks that code, please let me know. But I'm not the one, at least not today.

05:25 Dr. Brandi I get it. I get it. We're here to talk about a really important topic that you have advocated so much for and really has educated me about a lot of the new opportunities that is facing Black women, including a lot of research opportunities that I wasn't even aware of. We're going to get into that. We're going to talk about all of the initiatives that you've been advocating for. But first, I want to start at the beginning.

05:53 Adrianna Hopkins I want to start at Adriana, the young girl who is starting to learn about her body. I want you to take me through what that was like for you. So I remember not much about learning about my body. I remember going to sex ed class in school and everything. I remember it being very, very basic and knowing that you come of age, you get your period, it's bleeding once a month, and that means that you're ready to have children, etc. etc. I kind of remember being a late bloomer in that regard and getting my period late. And I remember when I got it, I mean, it was like cramping and a lot of blood and nobody really explained that it was terrible. And I just don't remember much more beyond that. I feel like obviously having had to go through IVF, now I'm learning about fallopian tubes and ovaries and the uterus and the cervix and embryos and all of the things that happen when a sperm actually meets an egg in a blastocyst phase. You know what I mean? That's when I'm getting into the nitty gritty.

07:11 Dr. Brandi But I do not recall any of that in sex ed growing up. So what do you wish you would have known?

07:20 Adrianna Hopkins I mean, even at that moment? So I wish that it would have been less sex education and more, you know, like anatomy class and physiology class or however the body works class. And I wish it was more of a, this is what you can expect. This is how things should work. You should only bleed for three days and a couple of tablespoons a day or what have you. You shouldn't have these painful cramps. I wish it was more of this is what to expect. And this is when you should go to the doctor and pursue more answers when things aren't the normal way. That's what I would have wished. I feel like that would have saved me a lot of time and, you know, researching on Dr. Google and trying to figure out what's going on. Absolutely. So take me to the point at which you in hindsight, you know, started to notice that things were different or if you even noticed that they were different. I don't think I noticed because I remember, you know, when I was in high school and I got my period. I remember my mom was like, OK, I know it's painful. My period is painful. I get back cramps. You have them take Motrin or excedrin the day before you're going to get your period so that you can try to alleviate the pain before it comes. You know, my mom bled for more than three days. I bled for more than three days. I, you know, bleed for seven days and it'd be a heavy, heavy period. I didn't realize what a gynecologist meant by heavy. Right. That was my heavy was a completely different heavy. And so I don't think I knew anything was wrong really until I was diagnosed with fibroids. And even then, I don't think that anyone really explained like, OK, this is what the quality of life should be for those couple of days a month versus what you're actually going through. I don't think I realized that like, OK, my period is out of control. My back is out of control until, you know, like after I had my fibroids removed and now I'm linking up with all of these advocacy groups. And I'm like, oh, had someone told me that, what, 20 some odd years ago? Right. You could have saved me the trouble. Absolutely.

09:50 Dr. Brandi So I guess the questions, you know, that kind of I'm thinking as a physician trying to take this information is what are the best ways to help people talk about what a normal period is like versus a normal period?

10:08 Adrianna Hopkins What terms do you wish you would have had so that the gynecologist would say, oh, wait a minute, we need to have a different conversation. Yeah. So I definitely feel like, again, it kind of goes back to this anatomy slash sex education class. You just gave me a PowerPoint presentation of this, this and this versus that, that and that. That would have been helpful. I feel like nowadays, you know, and through my advocacy work, I talk a lot to doctors, gynecologists, OBGYNs just about what are the questions that you want your patient to ask? And what is the information that you want to be told? And then what questions do you ask? And I don't know that I ever remember anyone asking me, you know, how long is your period? And how heavy is your period? How often are you changing pads or tampons? Are you bleeding through pads and tampons? You know, what is your pain level when you're on your period? I don't think I ever really had anyone asking those questions. And I think those are the questions to ask. Maybe some doctors assume that the patient would know, like, you know, bleeding for several days and then spotting for three more days is not normal. I didn't know that though. So unless someone pointed it out and asked me that pointed question, you know, I was going to the gynecologist for years, like, oh yeah, everything's good. You're perhaps me or go home. You know what I mean? It's just, I just never knew what you don't know can hurt you.

11:42 Dr. Brandi That's so interesting because I think in the more recent times, we've become very comfortable talking about periods and talking about, you know, dissecting a period based upon the days and the amount of bleeding. But that was not my experience. And so I'm just wondering if what, you know, what advice you could offer people about addressing the shame around talking about periods and maybe some tips that people could use when they go to talk about this really important topic with their gynecologist.

12:16 Adrianna Hopkins Yeah. So, you know, for me, and I joke about this a lot when I'm moderating panels and hosting events, you know, in a way you need to look at your doctor, whoever that doctor is, is like your hairstylist. What would you stand for? Would you stand for a botched haircut or a bad experience or feel like you're being overcharged for poor service? Absolutely not. You go to the hairstylist, like, are you all talking? I talk to my hairstylist. She knows about my life. I know about her life. We're giving each other advice. It should be a collaborative relationship between you and your doctor, any doctor. I don't care if it's an oncologist or an obstetrician. It needs to be a collaborative relationship where you can say, I'm going to give you the nitty gritty. And I think patients need to realize an experienced doctor. Has heard it all and is going to take a lot to shock that person. If that person is shocked, you need to find a new doctor. If you go to a hairstylist and say, I want a balayage and they're like, aha, you would leave. You know what I mean? So you need to have those same standards for your doctor. If you get a bad haircut, if you have a bad experience with the doctor, if they have bad bedside manner, if you're not getting the information that you want, if you're asking questions and they don't have it and they're not willing to give you information for a colleague or someone who might know the answer to your question, those are all just warning signs and red flags. But I think for a patient, when you're advocating for yourself, if you want. Let me put it this way. You put you get what you put in. So if you want a thorough exam, a thorough diagnosis, then you're going to have to be thorough in what your issues and concerns are. Otherwise, how would anybody help you?

14:14 Dr. Brandi That's a that's a really important point. I think a lot of times we don't even have the network of people to know how to ask those questions, which is why I was so like in awe of what the White Dress Project is doing, because it's really creating the community behind how to talk to your doctor and how to not be ashamed of talking about these things. We're going to talk a lot about the White Dress Project. I do want to actually talk about your fertility journey because, you know, we've talked about young Adriana. We've talked about Adriana's conversations with the gynecologist before she gets pregnant. But now I'm like, OK, so now you're married.

14:53 Adrianna Hopkins You want to start a family. Take me through what is that conversation looking like now? So I definitely feel like I probably didn't have any conversations really with an OBGYN other than like, yeah, I want to get pregnant. That's it. We're no, you know, prior exams or transvaginal ultrasounds or anything to like really get in there and take a look and see, OK, can you have kids? What happened was, I want to say it was May of 2016. I went to get just, you know, the routine pap smear and I laid down on my back on the table and the doctor immediately just looked at me and eyeballed it and was like, your uterus is enlarged. You know, I don't know what that means. And I'm like, OK, I noticed my stomach, my lower abdomen was getting big, but I hit 30. You know, my metabolism, maybe it slowed down. I'm doing crunches and working out thinking maybe I'm just getting fat. She's like, no, your uterus is enlarged. And I'm looking at your chart and there were no notes of this a year ago. So you need to go get an ultrasound. And so I got the ultrasound and it was like, you know, you have three fibroids. What are fibroids? Well, they're benign tumors and blah, blah, blah. And this point, I'm like, OK, how will this affect my fertility? Yeah. And so, you know, I went back up to the doctor and again, it was this where you have three fibroids, but it's not really affecting your quality of life. And unbeknownst to me, yeah, I'm bleeding during my periods for seven days, spotting for three days or four days after that. It's extremely heavy periods. I'm having back pain. That quality of life was normal for me. So I guess for her, it was like, well, just leave them. It's not really affecting your quality of life. But I wasn't conveying to her like what I'm experiencing. Is it normal for her to tell me, OK, it is affecting your quality of life? So that doctor said, you know, just leave them. And I called my mom, who's an anesthesiologist, and she said, you need to contact a fertility doctor who is concerned about your fertility. And so that's when it was just kind of like, OK, I want to have kids. I want to have kids between this age and this age. You know, at the time I was engaged, I was like, we're going to start a family soon. So you need to get in there and figure out what's going on. And that doctor did. And she said, you know, you don't leave fibroids, even though my fibroids were not in areas that would affect my ability to get pregnant. In other words, an embryo could implant in my uterus and there was nothing blocking sperm going through the cervix. She was just like, you don't leave fibroids. What if you do get pregnant? Now your body's got to choose to give blood to the baby or the fibroid. If the baby gets the blood, that fibroid is going to die. Now we're going to do surgery on a pregnant woman in her uterus with the baby or your body chooses a fibroid to give blood. And now you're putting your baby's life in jeopardy. So she was like, you take them out, period, point blank. So that was probably the point when it was like, OK, now I'm laser focused on my fertility. And so I had the myomectomy surgery.

18:10 Dr. Brandi Hey, it's Dr. Bringady. And as promised, I'm just popping in here to talk a little bit about myomectomies and how I approach these particular procedures as an anesthesiologist. Number one, it's very common for women coming in for myomectomies to be anemic. In other words, their blood counts are low even before the surgery. And that's simply because of the amount of blood that they're losing during a menstrual cycle. So I may see a low hemoglobin or a low hematocrit. That might be the first sign that something's off. And it's possible for your doctor to recommend iron or if it's really low, they may even recommend that you have a blood transfusion even before you go to surgery. Depending on the size of the fibroid, depending on the approach to this myomectomy, I may even consider giving a blood transfusion during the procedure or at least have blood available as a backup. And so, you know, it's just important that you consider, you know, that depending on the type of fibroids that you have, that may that may blood transfusion may may have to be a part of your surgical plan. The other thing I wanted to mention is that you make sure that you ask for a plan for your pain. OK, so depending on the type of surgery, you know, it doesn't always have to just be opioids. You can have IBTilenol. You can have regional anesthesia blocks. We do typically a tap block. It's a fancy term for describing how we numb the nerves to supply the abdomen where your surgical site typically is. And these are great options. These are great ways to reduce your pain after surgery without all of the side effects of opioids.

19:56 Adrianna Hopkins The doctor pulled out 10 fibroids at that time. And then it was a matter of, OK, you know, I pulled out your uterus, your fallopian tubes, I pulled out everything, looked at everything. Everything looks great. You should have no problem getting pregnant. So, cool, we're happy. Get married. Start trying to have a kid. It's not working. You know, we've gone past however many 32 years old. What have you? Maybe you try for six months. It's some I don't know what the numbers are, the timeline is, but we went past it. And so my OB-GYN was like, let's go ahead and get some blood drawn. Let's get some numbers and see what's what. Everything came back normal. And so it was like, well, it's called unexplained infertility. So we didn't have a reason as to why it wasn't happening for us. I don't know if the fibroids had anything to do with it or, you know, maybe my body was just like, yeah, I'm not interested in this right now. But my fertility journey didn't start until that fibroid diagnosis. That was the first time it was like up until then, you know, I'm thinking, you know, pregnancy is easy. You get pregnant. Boom. I didn't even know. I mean, I'm telling you, I knew nothing of ovulation. Tracking your ovulation. I knew nothing of that.

21:16 Dr. Brandi And again, that goes back to like sex education slash anatomy class. No one didn't dawn on me. I was unaware. You talked about that it was like you were laser focused when the fertility journey, when you really were saying, hey, listen, this is a goal. I want to start my family. What do you wish you would have known before that in terms of the health literacy conversations you were having just before, you know, you were having

21:45 Adrianna Hopkins conversations with your gynecologist about starting a family? So, you know, that's a good question. I guess what I don't know is what I don't know. Sure. In hindsight, what I say now is I think that. You know, insurance companies have changed their policies on pap smears. And I want to say the last time I checked, it was like, you know, every five years get a pap smear. And then when you're 40 or 42 or 45, then you can go to every two years or one year or something. I think that's just all absolutely ridiculous and does a disservice to women's health. In hindsight, what I wish is that. At key ages or key moments in life, I even you start to get serious with someone and you can see a future with this person where you want to have children with this person. Feel like you need to be getting ultrasounds, got MRIs, you know, all of the things to figure out. What is happening with your body now? So that down the line, you're not freaked out when it's just not happening naturally. And whatever might be happening, you know, maybe there's a fallopian tube that's blocked or maybe you have fibroids or endometriosis or PCOS. There could be a million reasons why your fertility journey might be difficult. Figure that out early. Right. You know what I mean? Like, and so maybe the magic number is when you get your period, we're going to do a whole ultrasound and do a checkup and see what's going on, because that's going to be our baseline. And then in five years, we're going to go back and see, has anything changed? What are your periods like now? What are your cramps like now, et cetera? And then maybe in another five years, you do this or maybe every three years you do it or it's like, oh, OK, you know, you're looking to have children in the next two or three years for these next two or three years. We're going to be doing these ultrasounds once a year when you come in for your pap smear. I just feel like for a lot of women, because we've been so trained to think that it's going to be a natural thing, an easy thing, you know, any random day of the month, it could happen. We just don't ever think about there could be something going on. And that's why it's not happening. Again, on the panel today that I was on, there was a woman there who said that she kind of always in the back of her mind knew that there was something going on that was a little funky with her body. But when she tried to have kids, wasn't working. Now she goes to the doctor and it's like, oh, yeah, you have PCOS. OK, well, now that I'm ready for children, I've got to deal with this issue first. And that's delaying the timeline. Whereas had we known these things, you know, ten years ago,

24:36 Dr. Brandi you could have saved yourself the trouble. So true. I I also remember you telling me about a lot of legislation that has been passed. And I did some some research on this, and I was astounded by the numbers that I saw with respect to uterine fibroids research. The Stephanie Tombs Jones, you know, in February research project that is the Education Act has gotten some funding. But it appears as if we're just now starting to offer the funding compared to other initiatives that support, you know, important topics like cystic fibrosis, the relative ratio of funding to uterine fibroids and other associated women's health projects are significantly underfunded. Yeah. And so I'm thankful to the White Dress Project for really bringing some of these things to light. And quite frankly, I wasn't even aware that these things were happening. And nor did I have the understanding of what that might look like for someone. As I get education as a physician and learn how to how to treat. But my question to you is. As we uncover the lack of research, what are things that people can do to really bring awareness and talk to their doctor about their need to maybe get more education, maybe consider finding research dollars or things to really to really change the awareness around uterine fibroids?

26:15 Adrianna Hopkins So I feel like people have to talk about having fibroids is like step one. You know, when I was diagnosed, I had never heard of fibroids. I didn't know what it meant. You say tumor to me. I think cancer immediately. I don't care if you have benign in front of the word. I'm just thinking this is a disaster. And then later, when I'm talking to my surgeon, who's doing the myomectomy, she's like, you know, by the time black women are 50, 50 years old, 80 percent will have fibroids. So it is a completely common thing. It's probably more rare to not have fibroids in your lifetime than it is to have fibroids. But when I was diagnosed, I felt so alone. I, you know, never heard of this. No one ever said anything. I'm thinking, why is this happening to me? But world is caving in on me. And it's like, yeah, this is pretty regular. And so we have to talk about it so that people don't feel isolated or alone or some sort of shame when they're having surgery on their uterus to remove fibroids. I think the other thing is once you have that diagnosis, wherever you are on your journey, you have to link up with an organization that's, you know, advocating for awareness around uterine fibroids and research dollars. You have to link up with that because you never know, A, whose life you'll touch or B, how far those testimonies will go. So my that's probably the two, two immediate things I think people can do. I think in terms of the medical profession on that side, I think doctors have to really speak up, not just black women, doctors, all doctors of all races and genders. You have to speak up and say, OK, this is something that I see all the time. And we've got to get to the bottom of it. When I do these panels that I moderate and these events that I host, there's always someone in the audience who says, where do fibroids come from? Why do they happen? And the experts always say, well, we don't know. It's never been researched. That is a problem. You can do the research, figure it out, and maybe we can prevent this from the front end and eliminate this as a problem. You know, I mean, it costs money to deal with this issue. You're buying more pads and tampons than you need to. You're buying more sheets when you bleed through at night. You're buying more clothes and you bleed through your clothes. It affects your relationships and affects your sex life. You know, it could cause issues with your fertility. Now you're out of pocket over IVF and IUI and, you know, birth control and treatments. It's a financial burden. It's an emotional burden. It's a social burden. It's an issue. So I think that the doctors have to start speaking up and advocating for research funding for uterine fibroids and the people who are dealing with fibroids wherever you are on your journey. You have to talk about it and link up with the group that is doing advocacy work to get this problem resolved.

29:25 Dr. Brandi You brought up a really good point about the consequences of physicians not necessarily being aware of this challenge, particularly if there's not research dollars. And I just see some astounding statistics, particularly around the training for myomectomies versus laparoscopic assisted hysterectomies versus, you know, robotic hysterectomies. And that, you know, there's a need for physicians to have this specific training to actually do the work. What would be your, you know, advice to people who are trying to make the decision on the type of care that they want if they are seeking fertility versus, you know, considering a hysterectomy?

30:09 Adrianna Hopkins So I think that and this is where the White Dress Project just really excels. They're always having events that you can join virtually to talk about different treatment options. And options that might not come up, you know, when you get on Google and when you have these doctors and experts giving this information for free. You know, you're not paying a co-pay for it. It's for free. You'll find out there might be multiple ways of treating fibroids at the same time. You might be able to do, you know, a CESA or UAE and something else at the same time. That might be the best option for you. A major problem going on for a really long time, and in some cases it still does, is women with fibroids would talk to their doctors. And the first thing and really the only thing they would say is hysterectomy. Wherever you are in your life, you know, during your childbearing years, it's like, well, hysterectomy. That's not the only option out there. So you have to link up with a group that has vetted information that is offering expert advice from people who have true experience. And you have to make an educated decision based on that.

31:27 Dr. Brandi Hey, It's Dr. Brandi. So I just wanted to mention a few other terms that Adriana is mentioning about how we can treat uterine fibroids aside from just surgery. You know, you can have hormonal medications to treat uterine fibroids. You can also have something called a uterine endometrial ablation. It's a very common procedure that we typically use to help women with a lot of heavy menstrual bleeding. You can also have something called a uterine artery embolization. Now, as a uterine ablation, yes, I typically am involved. That typically requires anesthesia and deep sedation. Uterine artery embolization, not typically. Usually, a radiologist is involved. They'll give you some sedation. It doesn't require as deep. So, it just really depends on the conversation that you have with your doctor about what your options are and what they think is appropriate.

32:26 Adrianna Hopkins But I just wanted to make sure we understood what she was talking about. You know, we talk a lot about getting more than one opinion. And in these sessions that we do, there was one doctor in particular, she said, you know, you can get two or three opinions. That's fine. If you're getting seven, eight or nine, you're looking for a doctor who you want to say what you want to hear. You know, so you need to find two or three opinions and go from there. But don't go searching and trying to find the right doctor to say what you want to hear. So I think patients really have to get as much information they can on the front end and then visit a couple of doctors and see, is this something that you can do? Is this in your field of expertise? If not, can you direct me to somebody else? If you don't think this is a good option for me, can you explain why and ask those questions? You know, again, it's your body. It's your money. Back to the hairstylist. It's your hair. You don't want to walk around looking crazy. And you want to go to a doctor who's not performing the best procedure for you.

33:37 Dr. Brandi And you're having complications down the road. That's well said. I think that a lot of this is just a lot of times, you know, patients don't have the information, so they don't know how to look. And so I really like the White Dress Project's collaboration, you know, with medical professionals that have that experience, but also having patients to advocate directly for themselves to two doctors and giving them the guide that they need. And after that, so, Adriana, I have some other questions about digital health. We're a digital health company. We want to offer other health apps, any technology that you've used on your journey, whether it's for your mental health, for, you know, tracking your periods or what other solutions could you suggest or recommend to people as you, you know, walk through this journey?

34:35 Adrianna Hopkins So for me, one of the big apps was Clue, the period app, you know, that was helping me with my ovulation tracking and also helping me because my periods have been irregular through the years. So, you know, now that I was taking my fertility seriously and after my fibroid diagnosis, whenever I would go to the gynecologist for a checkup or what have you, I would pull up the app. I guess my last day of my period was this day. Yeah, you know, the next one was here and I would actually have the information. I think probably prior to that, I was just, yeah, I think it was a couple of weeks ago and yeah, it lasted. You know, I mean, like just kind of guessing. So Clue is the major app that I use. And, you know, once I had my kids, I was using all of the bump and those those apps and everything. I have not used a mental health app. OK. But I think that in this day and age where you have your phone, you have your iPad, you have your computer, anything that's at your fingertips is clutch. It just kind of is one of those things that makes it absolutely no excuse. You know, why don't you know when your period is? There's eight thousand apps for you to track your period. Download one and figure it out. So I think that, you know, digital health and. All of that, I think that's going to be really, really key in getting people to stay aware of what's going on with their bodies, to track what's going on with their bodies and to relay that information

35:58 Dr. Brandi to their doctors. Yes, Dr. Brandy, I'm going to jump in here one more time just to highlight that this is a wonderful example of how mobile health tools can be used to assist with your conversation with your doctor. You know, being able to use a mobile health application to track your health and support your fertility journey is incredibly empowering. And of note, if you're trying to find a fertility application, my recommendation is to choose one that has one of the strictest data privacy policies. As you know, fertility is a very sensitive topic these days. Use those fertility applications that highlight adhering to European GDPR standards. And I'll go into what that all means later. But Clue is one of those that does that. But whenever you're looking at any application with regards to women's health, look to their data privacy policies to determine which one works the best for you. So I have to ask, how is motherhood now? You have two beautiful children. Motherhood. You're doing everything else.

37:03 Adrianna Hopkins So yes, motherhood is a journey. And it's one of those things, good days and bad days. And that is just me being transparent. I think a lot of times you look on social media and it's the highlight reel of people's lives. But I was late to this interview because my kids would just not stop crying. For no reason. You know, my son's fighting sleep, even though he's exhausted. My daughter wants a sucker, even though she's already brushed her teeth. And those are the things that it's just like, oh, my God. You know, the other part of it. And one of my friends from my yoga class just had a baby and I had high risk pregnancies. I had a traumatic birth experience with my son. And so I try not to tell people too much of the bad stuff because I don't want anyone to go into their own journey with this in the back of their head. But, you know, she reached out to me maybe two weeks after having her baby. And she was like, nobody told me it would be like this. And I'm like, you know, like what? Good, bad. She's like, everything hurts. You know, when he's breastfeeding, my uterus is shrinking and I can feel it contracting. It's just a lot of pain. It's just a lot. And, you know, she's she stopped breastfeeding and she felt guilty over that. And I'm like, girl, please. Like, is your child alive? Congratulations, you've made it another day. And so when she said to me, no one told me it would be like this, I was like, you know, this is why we have to do more talking out loud and saying the quiet parts out loud. Recovering from labor is difficult for some people. For those people who it's not good for you. Bless your heart. You know, during my panel today, Tamar Raxam was on the panel and she said she did not connect with her son when he was born. That happens. You know, it just it happens. Postpartum depression is the thing. It should probably be expected more than unexpected. Postpartum depression lasting for more than a couple of weeks, lasting months, lasting a year. Like, yeah, there is a whole fourth trimester that nobody talks about. You know, that first period after you not had a period for however many months, it's a doozy. You know what I mean? Like, yes, no one says these things out loud. In spite of all that, is motherhood beautiful and wonderful? Absolutely. And I try to remember. What is that saying? The days are long, but the years are short and time flies. My daughter's already three and I remember having her. I remember when she was born and laying on my chest. So time flies. And are there more good days and good feelings than bad? Absolutely. But I tell people all the time, not every day is rosy. It's not always unicorns and sunshine. It's just not. Sometimes it's a swamp.

40:05 Dr. Brandi Yes, I totally relate. But I'm happy. I'm happy that, you know, we talk about uterine fibroids and the challenges that are associated with it, your journey in being able to develop the vocabulary and the relationships that you needed to support that. And now you have two beautiful children. And so I think that this this is a this is a good example of how you can overcome some of these challenges with the right community. Right. And White Dress Project does a great job of giving people that space to be like, listen, this is happening to me. Yeah. The flip side of this is those who have challenges still have challenges getting pregnant. Right. Because that's real. What things do you offer? What what things would you say or offer to that community that is still struggling to try to get pregnant despite having some of the interventions that are offered?

41:06 Adrianna Hopkins Yeah. So that's a hard one because I know those people and I know how much they want it. And, you know, I'm not that person who's. Like, well, maybe it's just not for you. I'm not a person at all. Yeah. Because when I, you know, had to start IVF and I say this all the time, like me and God had some arguments and I was pissed, you know, people talk about a come to Jesus moment like, yeah, we came to blows. Right. You know. And so I think all of those feelings are very real and legitimate. And I always say, like, when you're in the trenches of that diagnosis, when you're in the trenches of the treatment, you're going to have to take the baby steps and the small wins and just keep moving forward. I believe in light at the end of the tunnel. I believe in the sunrise over the horizon. And I believe that sometimes it can take a while to get there. You know, I think especially in the black community, we all know that that passage from Psalms, you know, King David. Yay, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil. And then you look at that passage, it's like his enemies are bearing down on him. And here's God with a table before him. And they've got to sit down and have a meal. And he anoints his head with oil. And it's like my enemies are right there. And it's one of those things that's very comforting because you're at a table with the Lord. But it's also like no one said in the Bible, how long you're going to be sitting there, like how long I'm going to be sitting here. And this is great. But like, I still have this thing over my shoulder. And it's just one of those things that really resonated to me when I was going through my journey, because I didn't know how long I was going to be sitting there. I just knew that I was going to be sitting there and we'd be here for a while and we'd be talking and we'd be getting through this. And I'd be looking for the sunrise and looking for the light. And then it finally for me came. So I firmly believe that you might be in the trenches. You might be at the table with the Lord for a while. You just going to have to sit.

43:26 Dr. Brandi Thank you so much for that. I do believe in a light. Adriana, what are some first steps people can take if they wanted to join the White Dress Project,

43:37 Adrianna Hopkins if they wanted to know more about what you're doing? It's not even like a membership type thing. It's just one of those things where you follow them on Instagram at We Can Wear White. You go to their website, the white dress project dot org, and you find out what events are going on online, on social media. They have Instagram lives. They do things on YouTube. You know, during the pandemic was all virtual. But here this past year, they had in-person events in Atlanta, in Boston, in D.C. And so there's always something going on. And so you don't have to join. There's no dues to be paid. I would just say figure out what is the next informational session, meaning a session about treatment for fibroids or I've been diagnosed. What are my next steps or advocating for myself or ask the doctor? They have a whole series called Dialogue with a Doctor. So it's just a matter of tapping in and getting the information because it is free and it is good. And there's a lot of people who will take the information they get from these sessions and go back to their doctor and say, what about this, this and that, and find out that doctor kids not perform those procedures or they're not knowledgeable about those things. Well, now, you know, to find somebody else, you know, so that's how you get connected with the White Dress Project.

44:54 Dr. Brandi Adriana, tell me other projects that you're working on. How can people find you?

44:59 Adrianna Hopkins So you can find me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook. It's Adriana Hopkins, Adriana with two N's. And I'm there. I'm trying to share my story as much as possible. I'm based in the D.C. area. So whenever there's a maternal health event going on or a women's health event going on, I'm typically there. But that's how you would reach out to me. And then in terms of, you know, finding information about fibroids, vetted information is key. I the White Dress Project did not exist when I had my diagnosis to me. But I remember when I moved to this area, the founder of the White Dress Project, Tanika Gray Valbrun, she called and asked if I would host something. And I was like, girl, you have no idea. I'm going through this right now. And so she was right on time. And so when you find that sisterhood and support system, you just have to tap into it. And they have vetted information. That's key. You're not going through the black hole of Google and you're not, you know, getting bad advice or getting vetted advice from doctors who have performed countless surgeries and procedures for fibroids.

46:18 Dr. Brandi That's wonderful. That that is amazing. And I'm glad that, you know, we have this resource and we have initiatives like this that is changing the conversations about female fertility. So thank you so much for for for being here. Thank you for your time. I look forward to hearing more about your adventures in motherhood.

46:42 Adrianna Hopkins Oh, man, I put those on on Instagram as well. So little crazy kids.

46:50 Dr. Brandi All right. And that concludes episode eight. I hope that you've learned a lot about uterine fibroids and the need for more advocacy and organizations like White Dress Project that are addressing some of the need for collaboration between patients and doctors. And you learn more about how to use mobile health to learn how to collaborate with your doctor. I'm going to end this episode with some wise words from Dr. Samantha Butts. 

47:13 Dr Butts We've got to be of the mindset that overall health and gynecologic health is inextricably linked to reproductive goals.

47:33 Dr. Brandi Thanks for listening to this episode of Women's Digital Health. If you like this episode, please give us a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. Share this with friends and family and whomever you think could benefit from this conversation. Make sure you follow us on TikTok, LinkedIn, YouTube and Instagram. In episode nine, we will discuss data privacy. If you're now using technology for your health, what's the best way to use them and stay safe? Bethany Corbin, health tech attorney and podcast host of FemInnovation will guide us on an informative interview on best practices to use your technology. Post Robi Waite. If you want to know more about how to use technology to improve your health, subscribe to our newsletter on women'sdigitalhealth.com. Although I'm a board certified physician, I am not your physician. All content and information on this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It does not constitute medical advice, and it does not establish a doctor patient relationship by listening to this podcast. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you heard on this podcast. The personal views of our podcast guests on women's digital health are their own and do not replace medical professional advice.